Leading Quality
Welcome to Leading Quality, the show that dives into the real-world stories and strategies of healthcare quality improvement leaders at all levels, from Frontline Champions to C-Suite Executives. Each episode uncovers how these dedicated professionals tackle complex topics in real healthcare environments. Discussion range from QI fundamentals, to leadership, technology, AI, and beyond. If you’re passionate about elevating patient care and want practical insights that go beyond the buzzwords, this podcast is for you. Tune in for inspirational conversations, innovative frameworks, and the behind-the-scenes details you won’t hear anywhere else, and discover how you, too, can lead quality improvement from wherever you stand in healthcare.
Leading Quality
Building the Support System Family Doctors Have Been Missing
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Why This Episode Matters
In health systems around the world, the promise of better data is often discussed—but rarely realized in a way that actually supports clinicians at the point of care. In this episode, Gayle Grout shares her journey from technology and consulting into leading the Health Data Coalition of British Columbia (HDC), a physician-led not-for-profit organization that aggregates electronic medical record (EMR) data across multiple systems to help primary care providers understand their practice patterns, monitor improvement, and better serve patients. From dissecting processes to building trust with busy clinicians, this conversation explores how data becomes useful only when it is contextualized, trustworthy, and actionable.
Throughout the episode, we dig into why measurement matters, how feedback loops can reconnect clinicians with purpose, and what it takes to nurture a culture where data supports learning rather than judgment. Grout’s experiences reveal the tension between consumer expectations of information access and healthcare’s lagging systems, and her vision for the future centers on equipping primary care with the tools and support it deserves.
Key Ideas Explored
- Data is a byproduct of good processes, not the starting point of improvement.
- Trust and non-judgmental engagement are core to clinician adoption of measurement.
- Feedback loops that empower rather than penalize clinicians change culture.
- Aggregated EMR data can reveal both practice-level and community-level insights.
- Primary care needs both technology and human support to improve meaningful outcomes.
Takeaways for Quality Leaders
- Prioritize trust in any measurement initiative—clinicians must feel safe to explore their data.
- Focus measurement on questions clinicians care about, not what organizations assume matters.
- Support adoption of data tools by meeting clinicians in their workflows, not imposing them.
- Use stories alongside numbers to connect data back to patient care and clinician motivation.
- Consider how aggregate data can advocate for services and system change at community and policy levels.
- Recognize that measurement is not just technical; it’s cultural and relational work.
Continue the Conversation
Connect with Gayle Grout on LinkedIn to follow her work in supporting primary care data use.
This episode is especially useful for primary care leaders, quality officers, data strategists, and anyone interested in how measurement can empower frontline clinicians.
Please rate and comment to help other listeners find insights that can support improvement in daily practice.
Resources & Frameworks Referenced
- HDC Discover (Health Data Coalition’s aggregated EMR data platform)
- Bright Spots stories from primary care clinicians using data to drive change
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Leading Quality is a podcast for healthcare leaders committed to improving systems, culture, and outcomes.
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Connect with Jason Meadows on LinkedIn for more insights on healthcare quality and leadership.
New episodes published every other Thursday at 7AM Eastern Time.
I think it's important that our clinicians also have a greater sense of awareness of what their practice might look like by the numbers. Because often when they see the numbers, they might have their own motivation to act or to want to monitor or to dig in and get curious. And I think that is just a healthy part of having data at your fingertips.
SPEAKER_01:Welcome to Leading Quality, the podcast spotlighting the people moving healthcare forward from the front lines to the C street. I'm your host, Jason Meadows. Today's guest is Gail Grout, Executive Director of the Health Data Coalition of British Columbia. A physician-led, not-for-profit organization that supports primary care clinicians with meaningful practice-level and population-level insights drawn from electronic medical record data. Gail came into healthcare through technology and consulting, spending early years at Deloitte Consulting working in IT strategy and implementation. She later joined one of British Columbia's early electronic medical record companies, where she worked closely with family physicians and learned firsthand how technology, workflow, and measurement shape day-to-day clinical practice. Long before data-driven care became a buzzword, she was already asking a harder question. How do we measure quality in a way that actually helps clinicians care for patients? In her current role at HDC, Gail leads work that aggregates EMR data across multiple systems to give clinicians a clearer picture of their practice, while deliberately building trust, psychological safety, and curiosity around data use. This conversation explores a central tension in modern healthcare: how to use measurement to support learning and reflection rather than judgment or surveillance. And how data can reconnect clinicians to purpose rather than contribute to burnout. Gail Grout, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you so much for having me. It is so nice to connect with you, especially because we met at IHI so many years ago.
SPEAKER_01:You as well. I've been excited for this conversation for a while. And uh I'd like you to give me and to give our audience uh a bit of an overview of your career timeline up until now, just to set the stage and what brings you to a health data coalition at this point in your career.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you bet. I came as a technology enthusiast. Um my previous life, I feel like I came from the consulting world. Uh, worked for Deloitte Consulting for a number of years in IT strategy and implementation. And for personal reasons, ended up leaving the firm and moving back to BC to be closer to family. And through that, I stumbled upon a great little startup company that was uh emerging kind of electronic medical records uh back in 2007. Um, I'd never really worked in the healthcare sphere before, but uh got to uh learn a lot. And I always say that I'm so very grateful for the family physicians that took the time to explain the industry to me. So fast forward, I mean, I think there's always been an interest to be able to support primary care physicians since that, you know, that first kind of interaction with uh technology in primary care. And so I find myself now at the HDC or the Health Data Coalition. And this is, I think, what I was supposed to do. All like even back then, back in 2007, I was asking about metrics and, you know, how do we measure, you know, uh good quality care? I was even asking those questions back then, and uh, I love that I get the opportunity to kind of try and help shape some of that for our province now.
SPEAKER_01:I think this is a unique structure that even within Canada and certainly uh outside of Canada, others wouldn't have any kind of frame of reference for understanding. So can you tell me a little bit about what Health Data Coalition is, kind of how it's structured and funded, and then we'll go back into the data stuff?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you bet. The Health Data Coalition is a physician-led organization where its founders back back in 2007, there are a number of innovative uh clinicians that said, you know, once we can, you know, digitize this information, imagine what it can do, you know, for the community and for our province. And they had a big vision even back then when they were just starting to implement and adopt uh you know EMRs into their own practices. And so we are a not-for-profit organization that is funded by the Family Practice Services Committee or the FPSC here in BC, which is a joint collaborative uh between uh doctors of BC and the Ministry of Health. Uh so we're very fortunate to be at this collaborative table to be able to provide this type of service uh to our primary care clinicians. I think it's important though that we are an independent not-for-profit for a number of reasons. And I think and I think part of it is we are truly trying to support our providers and our EMR partners, they know that our intentions are for the benefit to support the provider to provide great care to patients. So we're kind of like, I always joke, I'm like, we're kind of like Switzerland, because the EMR vendors, while they are in competition with each other for market share, they are very much so, they understand what we're trying to do, and they are very much so supportive of what our goals and our purpose uh so they really want to align and help. Um, and I think that's something super that makes us a little bit special. So we are an organization that again, lots of primary care involvement. We also have um what we call our clinical data stewardship committee. This is a very important in terms of data stewardship. Uh, they review the measures that we create, the definitions that are created, because at the end of it, we always want to make sure that it is for use of the provider. It is understood, it gives it gives that feedback back to the provider of for their practice. And that's I think a really important piece. Now we're we're we're we're playing, we're testing some other kind of you know, measurement for community and for population health, but by and large, it is super important to the organization that we create measures that are meaningful and purposeful for primary care clinicians.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Can I add on another comment in terms that could tag on to the the clinical data stewardship committee? Um because I think it's important that, you know, again, that group also, uh, as they're creating definitions for you know our measures, they're always taking in kind of you know different guidelines. Um, here in BC, we have the guidelines and protocol committee, uh, otherwise known as GPAC. Uh, and a lot of that is like, you know, threaded into a lot of our work. Um I also kind of wanted to mention as well, like we're so super lucky uh to work with partners like UBC CPD, uh uh continuing professional development, um, because we get to create measures that align to their education. And so, you know, how how wonderful is it to be able to learn something new, reflect upon your practice, see the quantitative statistics in your practice, you know, and potentially be motivated to, you know, apply your own that new knowledge into your own clinical practice that you control, right? It's it's one of those neat things where I just think that, you know, it's easier to kind of reduce that no-do gap.
SPEAKER_01:Maybe you can tell me a little more first about what um experiences in your career up until now kind of shaped the way you think about data, the way and what drew you, I guess, to to working in in something like the healthcare, uh, the health data coalition.
SPEAKER_00:As a consultant, uh, there was always measurement because you're constantly trying to figure out what the baseline is, and then to be able to demonstrate to your client the change, um, the impact. Um, so that's always been part of the work uh that I had followed and had trained uh before. And so it felt very, I think, normal to bring that type of mindset into different industry. You know, I think about actually one of the last projects I worked on, uh, you know, we we saved the organization just under a million bucks on the first morning that we went live, mostly because you know, we we had to dissect the process and dissect the you know how things worked. And then once we understood kind of the processes, we could create solutions and then measure how well those solutions met the target or met the expectations of the client. I I do really think that that is change management. We can do that in many different ways, and and I love the fact that um, you know, I get to do this with technology. So that's kind of some of the work that I've done before. I was lucky enough, I had mentioned uh that I had uh found a small uh electronic medical record startup here in Kelowna uh called MedAccess. Um I was one of the kind of the senior leaders of that group. Uh they actually took a, I think they took a flyer on me. I didn't have any healthcare experience, uh, but had this kind of bigger systems experience. And so it was quite interesting learning about kind of the primary care processes, um, how to kind of help make things easier, dare I say, even you know, help in some cases automate portions of, you know, kind of processes, which I think contributed to making workflows easier, the collection of data just part of, you know, it just is just an easy byproduct of the process. And so I think because I've had that experience uh at the individual clinic level, um, I've also had that experience, if I could, at a group or community level. So to be able to have that experience at both in in a practice and at a community has really driven the different expectations that I have, that I think that, you know, data can really help at those different uh levels and and and different ways too.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and and through your experiences there with with MedAccess, through your your subsequent experiences with the HDC, um, you describe this mentality of measuring data to measure impact. Is that a mentality that you find that others in healthcare generally share with you? Is that something that you have to actively sell? Or is it something that people already come to the table with, do you think?
SPEAKER_00:Can I just say, like, I think in primary care, for so long, there's high demand. There hasn't been a reason, well, other than, you know, the the profession's um, you know, commitment to quality. But I mean, from a demand perspective, there's, you know, they're the primary care providers stay busy. So I I don't necessarily think that measurement is something that has been at the forefront because, you know, that our clinicians are so focused on providing care, which I think is great. I think it is the right thing. And I will say it's only been since 2007 here in BC when uh EMRs were implemented and adopted, that you know, they could even start thinking about, oh, okay, now let me think about the patients that aren't showing up. Um, seeing, you know, in terms of a specific patient cohort, what are what is the percentage of patients who are actually adhering to the you know protocol or the treatment protocol or whatever it might be? Those weren't things that they could do before. And I still think that there are clinics that don't have that habit yet because it hasn't been something that has been nurtured or supported. So for instance, you know, we talk about, you know, here at HDC, we've got what I call, we our our measures are kind of categorized. Uh, some of the measures that we have are what I call like their process measures, you know, of and an example here is, you know, of your patients living with diabetes. How many of them had have have had an A1C uh test taken in the last six months? That's just process. I mean, that's just so that the clinician can monitor or make sure everything's tickety-boo, or indicate that maybe somebody might need some extra support. I don't think people were really watching or monitoring that because they never knew that the data could support them. Now I think that, you know, as we support practices and communities and understanding kind of what these things mean, you know, you can now have, well, why aren't people going to the lab? Maybe it's patient education resources that are required to be able to kind of self-empower the patients to manage. So, anyways, I mean, these are the things that before anecdotally we didn't have quantitative measures to be able to show. Now we do. And I think now it's a matter of figuring out what's the habit that we might want to have to monitor and track these things.
SPEAKER_01:You're kind of alluding there to something that I've heard you describe, uh, which is that primary care as a as a system um has been functioning without some of the foundational supports for for a long time. And I wonder when that realization first hit you.
SPEAKER_00:You know, I think part of it is we also we also want the system to evolve. And so what I think has happened is like our society has evolved and our healthcare system hasn't kept pace. You know, I can I can order anything off of Amazon. I get uh confirmation tracking number, it gets, you know, I can see it being fulfilled, and then I get a delivery tracking, you know, number as well. That is just kind of something that you know all consumers now have become accustomed to. And yet, our family physicians, when they order a lab result, you know, uh, you know, a screening test, they don't have the same reconciled process that I just described when I order something off of Amazon. When they order a lab result, they print off a paper or they e-fax it to the lab. Somebody over at the lab has to, you know, manually re-enter in the patient information. They go and do the lab result and it comes back in to the clinician's EMR, but it's not reconciled with the original order. So there's just things like this that, I mean, don't get me wrong, that was good enough back in 2007, but we just haven't kept pace with the expectations of consumers of what we experience out in, you know, as just normal consumers. So these are the things that I think, you know, I just hope that we can help kind of nudge these things along.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And so this is getting into the idea of closing the loop, of having some feedback loops like the Amazon example you gave. For people that haven't thought too much about that problem, how would you describe the downstream consequences for patients and for physicians of not having these feedback loops with lab orders or radiology tests or other things? What are, you know, what does that, why is that a problem?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I think, you know, the the biggest one is that it's easy to fall between the cracks. There are so many things happening and so many patients that our clinicians are trying so hard to serve, that I worry that, you know, there are things that fall through the cracks. And, you know, I, you know, there's some personal experience here, uh, you know, in terms of a family member's uh health. And I and I'd be surprised if not all of us have had some kind of experience where, you know, if it weren't for our own advocacy to go and confirm, hey, did that, you know, request for screening or whatever it is, or or or referral to a specialist, we haven't heard anything back. Oh, you know, and you find out, oh, it actually somehow didn't get put through. I think these are the real things. Uh, you know, it may seem small, and and it's one of these things too, where I sit there and I'm like, if you aren't familiar with the system, sometimes you just trust that the system is taking care of you. And sometimes it misses things. So this is the this is where I feel like, you know, there's some there's some examples here that you know, I I I this is what at HDC trying to look for ways to provide some of that information back to our clinicians. We recognize the system is not perfect and and you know, and that's okay. You know, we're gonna try and help and try and support kind of increasing awareness where there may be a need, making sure that we're engaging with clinicians to confirm whether or not you know that may might make sense. Um, but I think it's important that our clinicians also have a greater sense of awareness of what their practice might look like by the numbers. Because often when they see the numbers, they might have their own motivation to act, or to want to monitor, or to dig in and get curious. Um, and I think that is just a healthy part of having data at your fingertips.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well said. And I think you've you've touched on some notes there that I think will be deeply familiar to to patients and clinicians who have navigated these systems. We thought before or as uh EMRs were starting to roll out that um you know that the system would be smoother, would, you know, things would get taken care of naturally. I think there's a lot of patients, I will say, speaking as a clinician myself, a lot of patients who think that um almost anything that's ever happened to them in the system, that I should be able to just look at it, quote unquote, in the computer. And that is that's sometimes true. Certainly, we have some hospitals and clinics that that are networked and there's different amounts of friction depending on the situation to get that information. But I think that what they imagine and what we see in practice, there's there's certainly uh ongoing gaps as you're as you're mentioning. You also mentioned connecting with with clinicians and uh a few kind of questions on on that topic. Um what so you've talked about this idea of connection before content. Maybe we can just start there with with kind of what that means and and how that's been a part of your strategy at HDC.
SPEAKER_00:You know, we're super fortunate. The Rural Coordination uh Center of BC sponsored the AtLeos, Sean and Heather Marie Atlio. Uh they have started a compassionate leadership center here in BC. You know, HDC was lucky enough to have been able to send a cohort of uh team members, clinicians, uh, you know, part of our HDC core team to be able to learn more from the Approach. And I will say this connection before content pieces is huge, I think, for us. My field team will head out and go meet clinicians, uh, often bring them lunch and uh show them kind of some of what their practice looks like by the numbers. Usually the first meeting, there's a lot of hesitancy and really kind of getting into the numbers. Because I think for so long, the use of data in BC was kind of used a bit more for judgment versus kind of empowering kind of operational processes and empowering clinicians. Um, for so long it's been sucked up and rolled up versus kind of being ingested and then providing the insights back down. I actually love uh Kadar Mate actually from IHI had a great uh quote on this. I mean, and spoke exactly to that. We need to start kind of bringing the data in and pushing it back down to our team members on the ground because they're the closest ones that are providing the care to us patients. And so it's a matter of this kind of culture change, to be quite frank. I feel like they're, you know, um, the team goes in and gets to know the clinician, helps understand where their interests are, and then can go into the application to HDC Discover and show them some different areas of their practice. You know, it's pretty common when a clinician will be like, that can't be right. And we will go through the time and do a bit of an audit with them to ensure that, hey, let's okay, let's go double check this. And this is an opportunity sometimes when it is right, and it's an opportunity for reflection for the clinician. We don't push anyone to do anything, it is often our own clinicians that want to do things for the benefits of their patients, and that's what motivates the majority of our physicians and nurse practitioners here that use our application. And so, again, I'll I'll just say this instead of data being scary or being you know deemed as inaccurate, you know, I feel like this is where we've got our organization works on creating a safe space for discussion around their own practice data. When that happens, wow, do we ever get some wonderful advocates? Because then they can see how it helps them. And they're typically the ones that go to their community and try and, you know, kind of promote looking at things as a community.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so you know, I hear this uh a lot of things that you're doing with the the CDSC, with just physically being a presence in family physicians clinics in a way that makes your presence a regular thing. It makes your intentions be clear as an organization that's trying to empower rather than use data for punitive reasons. And you capture this in in many ways, but in one way is through your Bright Spots stories that you publish on your website. And and these are stories about uh the data being used to great effect. I'm wondering if there's any of those stories that stand out for you that might be a good illustration of how data has helped either a patient or has changed a clinician's day-to-day practice.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you bet. I mean, goodness, we're so lucky when we get to hear these stories directly from our users. Um, and I think we're always even more lucky when our uh, you know, uh HTC Discovery users are willing to go on the record to share some of this. You know, I think um most of our primary care clinicians are uh quite, you know, um very humble. So uh to be put in the spotlight is not always something that is comfortable for them. So I will maybe uh share just a couple of them. Uh, one of the more recent ones uh was with uh Dr. Dodek. Um actually, this is where he was inspired by a previous bright spot. Uh we had published um some of the work that our team had done with Dr. uh Stuckey. Uh he was uh he's a clinician uh in the interior BC. And uh I understand Dr. Dodek had uh read Dr. Stuckey's Bright Spot and was like, I want to do that. Um, which I love it because this speaks to spread. This speaks to the utilization of you know how this how this can be done uh by many and that collective impact. Um, but I I will say uh Dr. Dodek, oh, there's a quote, and I'm I just if I could share it. And I think it it speaks to the humanity. Like the the data is just data. It's it's our clinicians that bring the the warmth and the humanity and this to the situation. Um and I if I if I could, um there's there's a quote.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, of course, please do.
SPEAKER_00:There's a quote that he shared with us. Um this project highlighted for me the profound beauty of longitudinal relationships and family medicine. While the data from my quality improvement work appears as numbers, rates, percentages, outcomes, each one represents a real person. I just felt like I wanted to, I got teary when I read that the first time, because this is kind of what we're this is what for us excellence looks like.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, thank you for sharing that. It's it's so important for for us, you know, whether you're more of a a stories person or a data person, you know, to find ways to to meld those two, because those stories are really bring a lot of humanity and power to to the numbers. So, you know, thanks for for sharing that. Um, you also mentioned uh when we spoke before the importance of meeting physicians where they are. And I can imagine as you're talking about visiting physicians in their clinics, maybe on a busy day at lunch hour, that some of them are early adopters, excited to use data and are already, you know, they're on that early part of the bell curve. And there are others who might, you know, might not even find themselves on the bell curve at all for a variety of reasons. And and as we live in an epidemic of burnout in healthcare, I wonder how you as an organization approach people in that situation.
SPEAKER_00:I think we try and reconnect with why they became a clinician in the first place. And this is where, again, I've got a, you know, the team is great around this, and and I'm a bit more so I think of a process person, um, which isn't exciting, right? Yeah, going in and talking about, wait, what's your process? People don't get excited about that. But people get excited about talking about like new clinical treatments that they're it they're trying with their patients, and you know, I you know, I anticipate that this should help them, right? And you can sit there and be like, well, well, why don't what what could we use as measurement to to track that? Is there something that we could start, you know, measuring to provide that feedback for to you? And that's when you see people get excited. This is why I think it's so important. Like we're one of the few organizations that is actually looking at, you know, kind of tracking patient outcomes. Much of the other measures that we try and support as well are kind of, like I said, more process measures or capacity measures. There are a few groups, I think, right now, and I and and I we know of a number of them uh across Canada, but there are a few uh that are trying to really capture the patient impact. It's not always easy, but that's where our clinicians get excited. So that's where we want to lean into. So you're right, uh we have uh we have a story uh uh of you know clinicians uh where they didn't they didn't want to potentially capture certain data points. But then when they realized they couldn't kind of monitor or manage their patient, you know, panel because they had no visibility, they're willing to change because you know, watching a few of those indicators was worthwhile. It's worth the investment, and that's kind of where we try and figure out where people are at. And I will say this there are clinicians that full on they need to take a break because they've been working so hard, and uh, you know, burnout is real, and that's okay. Sometimes, and again, I'll say this uh to my team just go in there and make sure you show them the enormous contribution they're making. And maybe that's all you do. It's just to reinforce that they're doing a great job. And then once they're ready, they will ask you, and it's happened, and we're we're very grateful when we get that opportunity.
SPEAKER_01:You've mentioned a couple times the uh HDC Discover, and I think this is kind of your flagship product. Can you tell us a little bit about what HDC Discover is?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you bet. So I mentioned earlier we're so lucky to be connected, integrated with six different EMR solutions. We have agreements, uh, there's three-way agreements, us and the clinician. The clinician has a different agreement with their EMR, and we have another separate agreement with the EMRs. So it's a three-way relationship. Once the uh clinic has agreed to um the agreement between us and them, uh, data will be released and we basically take uh a copy of the data and run clinical measures, basically. Uh so we've got a slate of, I believe it's just now, just shy of 400 different clinical measures in our system to be able to kind of provide uh a view of what's happening in practice. Now, like I said, when we're coming to a clinic and they're already a little bit, you know, nervous, uh, we're not gonna show them all 400. We go and find out where they're interested. But this is where, again, we're very clear in our product uh to show how are these measures defined? What different codes are we looking for? What is the intention of this measure? And what are the guidelines that kind of influence the definition of this measure? And I think having that together helps the process for just, you know, again, allowing clinicians, they're seeing this often for the first time. Um, when they are used to a, you know, uh a one-on-one patient encounter, they aren't, it is not a habit for them to take a half step back and look at their patient population as a whole, or even groups within their patient population. So that's just the the type of work and services that we provide as well to our clinicians. So there is a product, but I I always want to call up my team because my team's awesome. Uh, and we also have associated services to support too.
SPEAKER_01:Right. And I think a lot of people who have had any kind of measurement in their practice will will kind of readily intuit some of the things that that might get measured. You mentioned A1C earlier, you know, blood pressure numbers. I think there's a lot of of different metrics that might we might uh that might come to our minds readily. And I think we might also, you know, clinicians listening will also intuit, you know, how that might be useful to them as a as a single individual clinician. But I know that your vision also extends and your current work extends broader than just giving feedback to an individual clinician that you're um looking at at practice level, you're looking at uh the 37 different divisions of family practice throughout the province of BC. And then also how there's you know, what meaningful connections and meaningful work you can do between family physician offices and hospitals. I wonder if you can paint a a bit of the landscape of of what it looks like beyond the individual uh physician.
SPEAKER_00:I think you know this is evolving. Uh, and I I think you know what we aspire to is to is very much so aligned. I just recently attended an InfoWay uh uh presentation, and and when you know InfoWay talks about like interoperability and being able to support the provider at the point of care with the right information at the right time, and also empowering patient access to their own record. Wow, these are things that I get super excited about. These are things that not there's no one organization that can do this on their own. And I think that the more we talk about how data should serve the system, you'd be amazed at the amazing and creative things that come out. And I think this is the this is the excitement, this is the piece. What might what might be needed in rural BC might be different than what is required in urban in an urban community here in BC. And I think part of that is just understanding a bit more of how, you know, what are the many different ways that we need to consider? I don't want us to get overwhelmed because it is, it can get complicated, but we have to ensure that we are looking at this from many different angles. I say this because I, first of all, big shout out to our divisions of family practice that are in rural BC. Uh, they have been stretched beyond belief. And when it is common for their patient to present at a hospital outside of their jurisdiction, and there is no way that the communication gets back to that clinician in a timely manner to be able to ship the patient's record. And let's say, let me just, you know, just again, international patient profile, like even just their medical uh profile allergies. Let's even just stop there. Like, can we not like to get some of that basic information? I think that's when we're talking about like safety and care. That might not be as common for urban areas, but I know it is for our more rural locations.
SPEAKER_01:And shifting kind of from the current work that you're doing into what the future might look like, both for for you, for HDC, and perhaps for the province more broadly. Um if you imagine primary care in British Columbia with uh the foundational supports that you feel it it truly deserves, what does that what does that look like?
SPEAKER_00:Well, that's a big question, Jason. I attended a uh health quality forum uh conference two years ago. A gentleman named Russell Cormac uh spoke at that conference and he He talked about how 80% of our healthcare spending is spent on acute care and 20% is spent on community and primary care. Give or take, right? Like ish. And and it struck me. It struck me. I was like, oh my gosh, it's true, but I love the fact that there's that robot doing you know surgical work at the hospital. But hold on a second, right? Like that doesn't seem right. Um so when I talk about kind of I'm not exactly sure what that all looks like, but I do know that we need more supports to help coordinate at the primary care level. I don't know exactly what that means. I look at our our sibling organizations or you know, across the pro uh the country, uh, there's great examples of how there are teams that are working together to be able to really improve access and quality care. I love, I'm often inspired by a number of those teams. Uh, and I think technology is one of the things that enables that. I also believe that people actually understanding the issues at hand and being creative to find ways to improve is also very important. That they are the ones that direct the technology to do the right things. Um, and as I mentioned before, I'm a big believer that data is the byproduct of good processes. So, again, um, when we have a system that is working well and it's connected, uh, you know, and and the information is getting to the right people at the right time, we'll see that reflected in the data.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well said. And, you know, to have to to imagine a future in which family physicians have all the right supports, where you know, the funding, as you're alluding to, maybe shifts a little bit more in the preventive primary care direction. What is HDC's role in that future?
SPEAKER_00:I there's many things I'd love to do to support our primary care clinicians. Um I recognize that in well, today, our current capacity, uh, I am very proud of the work that we do to support our primary care clinicians and the communities that they serve. I am so grateful that we have uh so many great partnerships with divisions of family practice across the province. And this is new for them too. They never ever before had access to these aggregates. And, you know, it's it's new. It's it's a matter of figuring out, okay, so what does this mean and how can we use this? Uh we've got a number of divisions that have, you know, used our data to advocate for more services in their community. And I I love that. I think that is something no matter what, we continue to support that. But I do have a dream at some point that our feedback mechanism is more active, uh, that it can support, um who knows, maybe one day I might be able to stand up a service that might be connected right into, you know, an implementation service right into the clinics. So that I we get that the clinics are very busy. But when we find opportunities where we could manage processes that are, you know, clear and that are agreed upon with the clinician, maybe we could even go ahead and engage their patients with their with the provider's knowledge, be able to drive some of those kind of patient outcomes that they they as well want to see. Who knows? Who knows, Jason? That's me just saying, you know, I I'd love to be able to be, you know, but again, there's a lot of legislation, there's a lot of legal, there's a lot of all that stuff. But I I just feel like we wanna we wanna help the clinics more because their patient populations are only getting more complex than before.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and they they need extra layers of support. Anyone who's experienced primary care as a as a clinician or as a patient, I think sees the importance. Importance of giving as much support as we can to our truly frontline people, our family physicians and others providing primary care? I wonder, as you do this work and you think about the future, what gives you optimism right now?
SPEAKER_00:You know what gives me optimism? When I ask this question and people, the light goes off. I sit there and I'll ask, and I'll ask you, I'll ask all your listeners. Who do you want to have the most comprehensive view of your health record? Who do you want to be in your corner to help navigate our healthcare system when you need it? I have optimism because I believe that we're trying to support the patient alcohol home. And I believe that many people, when you ask that question, people stop and go, well, hold on a second. They all come to that answer. So my hope is if I can ask that question more, and people come to that realization, we can all figure this out together. Because there's many different ways that we can get there. But you know, again, and the systems are different, the people are different, but I'm certain we can find a way to get the information to the people who need it that can help us the most as patients.
SPEAKER_01:I think that's such a great place to round out a conversation that I've I've so enjoyed and so appreciate you uh coming to have with me today. Um for listeners who'd like to follow your work or connect, uh what's the the best way for them to do that?
SPEAKER_00:Well, absolutely. Connect with me uh via LinkedIn. Uh you can find me as Gail Grout. Otherwise, I'd you know, love for people to uh visit our website at hdcbc.ca. We also have a monthly newsletter, so feel free to subscribe to that. Um I will say this I I love our newsletter because it we like to sprinkle with lots of bright spots. Um and I think you know there's some amazing work that's happening. So we like to make sure that we get to acknowledge and spread that too. So uh those would be the best ways, Jason and I. Thank you so much for having me. What a great opportunity to talk about the stuff that we get to do.
SPEAKER_01:Likewise. And uh, you know, for for anyone who does want to reach out to you, I will include uh all of those references in the uh in the show notes. Uh Gail Grout, thank you so much for all of your your energy for the beautiful things that you're doing for your province uh through the the Health Data Coalition. And uh I look forward to talking with you again. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you.
SPEAKER_01:Thanks so much for listening to today's episode of Leading Quality. If you enjoyed the show, please take a moment to like, subscribe, and share it with someone who might find it useful. You can find all our episodes at leadingquality.budsprout.com or in your favorite podcast app. The show is written and hosted by me, Jason Meadows, edited by Milan Milostavievich, and produced by Thrive Healthcare Improvement. See you next time.
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